Friday, June 3, 2011

Angela from Lucky Gunner on the ammo girls.

Seeing all the hubbub, and after writing my own post on the matter I thought I'd go right to the source about the ammo girls and sent an email about it to Angela from Lucky Gunner:

I just wanted to drop you a line to tell you what a great time I had at the blogger shoot!  It was a lot of fun, and if their is another in the future I would love to attend.  Thank you so much for putting together this event!

Another thing I wanted to ask you about is something that has come up in the blogs, specifically the blogs of a couple of the female gun bloggers.  The ammo girls, specifically the way they were dressed, seems to have ruffled a few feathers. Here. And here.  It looked like all the female employees of Lucky Gunner were wearing athletic clothing which I though I appropriate, but I'm a guy and hardly objective when attractive young women are involved. 

How did you feel about the ammo girls?  About the way they were dressed?  About how you were dressed?  Was it a requirement, or a choice?  Have you been contacted by any of the female bloggers about this?  Did any of them bring it up at the event?  Any plans to do anything differently in the future if it has been brought up?

Her reply, 

Hi Robert,

Glad to have you this weekend too, and I’m glad you had a good time!

Yes, I have been reading up on the controversial ammo girl posts and have to say I am quite surprised at the reaction.  I did not feel that any of the girls were dressed inappropriately or revealing too much skin… I myself thought some of the people in jeans and cargo pants were crazy to be dressed so warmly in 95 degree weather! J  I definitely did not foresee such a controversial issue arising from it.

Another funny thing about the ammo girls is that it was my idea- a woman thought of it!  I am an athlete and run many marathons- that skort I was wearing is one that I wear during my races and I just don’t think of it as being revealing.  I think of it as being functional and this weekend it served as being cool and comfortable- it was a Nike brand after all.   

The other girls were all my friends from college who agreed to do me a favor and work where needed at the event- some of them were former shooters and others hadn’t ever shot a gun.  They were excited to be able to be part of the experience, they all had a good time, and they all walked away wanting to get their carry permits and buy a glock!  Point being, they are all 24- 25 years old, intelligent, young professional women with college degrees who happen to be attractive, in shape, and comfortable wearing what you saw this weekend… not giggling, teenage, bimbo cheerleaders like I have read many people refer to them as.

So in short…

·         I thought the ammo girls did a great job- they were around to help where needed and left you alone if you didn’t need anything or want their assistance.  I never saw anyone acting inappropriately towards the ammo girls and I never saw the ammo girls acting inappropriately toward any of the bloggers either.  We also had a number of young, fit, attractive men in khaki shorts and polo’s who were in the ammo trucks sweating and maneuvering ammo- everyone was just helping out where they could.  It just happens that our company is on the younger side and so are my friends, we didn’t scout out modeling companies or anything! J
·         I only told my friends it would be hot, that I recommended wearing tennis shoes, and that I would provide them with a polo- they choose what they wore on the bottoms.  All the polo’s were bought in advance in size medium which ended up running big hence the ties in the back of the shirts.
·         I have not been contacted by any female bloggers and no one at the event brought up the ammo girl issue as a concern at the event.
·         In the future, I’m not exactly sure what we will do I’ll have to think about it some more.  All I can say is that the results as evidenced in those posts were not what I expected to come from the idea and that the blogosphere is a tough crowd… it’s hard to make everyone happy.  I need to get some tougher skin! J

Anyway, please don’t post this in reference to me or Lucky Gunner directly- I’d like for the company and our employees to stay out of the posts as much as possible.

Thank you and we hope to have you back next year!

There you have it.  The ladies dressed themselves (except for the polos Angela provided them with), and were volunteers who had fun and came away from it wanting to be gunnies.  And some of you compared them to the Sniper Babes and made other insulting comments about a bunch of college educated, average women.  You should be ashamed of yourselves, and I hope your behavior doesn't turn them away from the gun culture.

Edited to add:  I'm an idiot.  I did not read Angela's email very carefully and posted it against  her wishes.  I honestly didn't realize that until today, and I'm afraid taking it down would be pointless at this time. 

Angela,  I offer you my apologies and I hope there have been no negative consequences as a result of my lack of critical reading skills.


Kevin said...

Psssst! You can't read Angela's response unless you highlight it. Annoying.

RobertM said...

Fixed it!

Thanks for the heads up, Kevin!

Sean D Sorrentino said...

The issue wasn't. Whether they were inappropriately dressed, it was whether they put up a barrier to entry against women. Breda thinks that they did. I think she's right.

Heck, I was uncomfortable with it. I imagine that women might be as well.

RobertM said...

How, Sean? That's the part I honestly don't get. The only barrier I can see is attractive young women dressed like attractive young women participating in outdoor activities in the summer.

Sean D Sorrentino said...

You'll have to ask some women why that is. Breda's point is that many women take it poorly and avoid shooting sports where booth babes are on display.

I was uncomfortable because it was a bunch of girls half my age. Not really a problem for you.

RobertM said...

If those were both babes they sucked at it. I didn't get a single coy smile or flirtatious giggle.

As far as I can gather Breda's biggest problem was the Lucky Gunner photo stream because it was heavy on the ammo girls and male bloggers. I'd be sympathetic if more female bloggers had attended. I am happy to concede that Lucky Gunner could have focused more attention on the female bloggers IF this event had been focused on bringing new women shooters into the market. It wasn't, it was about getting gun bloggers, any gun bloggers, to plaster Lucky Gunner all over their blogs.

My biggest problem is that without ever meeting or interacting with the young women in question a number of bloggers are implying or outright calling them bimbos and likening them to that fraud Gun Nuts tried to foist upon us.

On the contrary, if you read Angela's email she points out that aside from the polo she provided they dressed themselves and acted professionally as did all the men present.

RobertM said...

"booth" damn it

Tam said...


I wish I hadn't said anything now.

I keep re-reading my post to find where I said anything about "sexism" or "bimbo" or "inappropriate attire" or whatever, but I can't find it.

Yes, it was perfectly appropriate summer apparel; I see it on the Monon Trail every day.

Personally, I tend to cover up skin for a croded firing line, but that's because I've seen and felt and smelled what happens when a piece of fresh 5.56 brass lands on skin slick with sweat and sunscreen and I've been "branded" enough for one life, thanks, but other people are welcome to wear what they want. ;)

I just thought it made an interesting meta-point about marketing in the firearms biz, but that got lost in all the hooraw.

If I didn't have a personal policy of not deleting posts, I'd have deleted that whole sorry mess.

And as far as Angela goes, especially, I have nothing but praise for how she handled the whole weekend; it didn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out who the ramrod behind all the festivities was, and she herded cats with amazing skill. Whatever they're paying her isn't enough.

RobertM said...

Tam, aside from the polls and khakis comment you didn't mention attire. Breda on the other hand lumped them together with the Sniper Skanks and that pissed me off.

Old NFO said...

I think the whole thing is overblown... those ladies were there of their own free will and sure as hell weren't bimbos... Well educated, and having fun, and were smarter than we were as far as dress! My daughters are that age (maybe older) and I didn't see an issue with it. Angela did one hellva job in my opinion!

RobertM said...

Agreed, and I'll admit I blew my top on the defensive end just a bit. I actually do understand Breda's position a hell of a lot better after hearing her talk about it on VC. I still disagree, but I can see where she's coming from.

Kevin said...

As far as I can gather Breda's biggest problem was the Lucky Gunner photo stream because it was heavy on the ammo girls and male bloggers.

See, I got that from her comments, too. A) Yes, the slideshow is heavy on THEIR EMPLOYEES, but B) no, it wasn't "heavy" on male bloggers. The male bloggers were heavy, but there were a lot more of us than there were of female bloggers. I show up exactly once - the same as Mz. VRWC and Jennifer. Tam shows up three times.

It just seems to me that Breda was primed to be offended, so she was offended. Jennifer wasn't, Tam wasn't, and Mz. VWRC wasn't, and they were all present.

I asked the question, "If they'd been unattractive, would it have made a difference, and nearly got my head bit off. I think I touched a nerve. But then, so did LuckyGunner.

Thus illustrating my point. The problem wasn't with LuckyGunner, it was with the nerve being touched.

Angela, thank you for responding. I think that having your input aired really helped.

CapitalistPig said...

If the female bloggers been treated like eye candy, instead of shooters who blog, it would have been offensive.

Jacqueline (Mz. VRWC) rarely had to fetch her own ammo, as LuckyGunner's "bullet boys" and the male bloggers kept her supplied at all times. She said it made her feel like a rock star.

Our photos from the shoot have at least a dozen photos of the ammo waitresses that Mz. VRWC took, because she likes to see women get that big grin when they discover the joy of shooting.

RobertM said...

Only one picture of me as well, unless you count the bill of my cap as me!

This really was much ado about nothing.

Jennifer said...

I understand why she, as an outside observer, felt the way she did. Hopefully next year, more female gun bloggers will be in attendance and the problem will fix itself.

RobertM said...

I agree and have the same hope, Jennifer.

Greg Summers - ArmsVault said...

My fiance and I didn't think there was anything wrong with the Ammo Girls. Nothing wrong with how they were dressed, and from what we could see, nothing wrong with how they behaved.

As for alienating women within the shooting industry... I really doubt that it would bother the majority of women (or men).