Sunday, April 25, 2010

Immigration and Facebook.

A little back and forth on immigration:

This article was posted, and thoughts were asked for:

First response: I think this is par for course for the state of Arizona since they were the only state screaming and kicking to NOT want to recognize Martin Luther King Day. This DOES violate an individual's constitutional rights and is clearly racial profiling. I hardly think a cop is going to go up to a white person in Arizona and ask to see their papers. This will be struck down in the courts.

My response: If the feds were doing their job this law would never have been considered. Illegal immigration is a problem and nothing is being done to address it. It probably will be struck down in federal court because it violates the US Constitution's supremacy clause. However, it could be argued that the federal government has failed in it's constitutional duty to protect states from invasion and that a state has a legitimate power to seek other means of solving the problem when the feds fail to do so (Arizona has seen a huge rise in crime that is committed by illegals involved in the drug would be hard to argue that organized criminal gangs operating with impunity from Mexico is any less of an invasion than that by Poncho Villa's bandits in the early 20th century).

In the end, it's more a political statement than anything. I'm personally more interested in the fact that Arizona recently passed legislation allowing anyone who isn't barred from owning a gun to carry one without needing a permit. It's a score for individual freedom.

Third response: [...] I didnt know about the state not recognizing MLK day.
I have NO problem with people from other countries wanting to come to the US, even if it's just for work BUT get a SSN & PAY TAXES!!!! I dont care if you take a damn test or not...who cares...just dont make the US citizens suffer financially. Oh...& make them get car ins! haha

First: Yep. Here's the thing. Most of them do pay taxes when it comes to buying stuff at Walmart or grocery stores, which all illegal immigrants do. They wouldn't be paying income taxes anyway because they don't make enough money even if they did file taxes. I think most states (at least the ones I've lived in) require everyone to have car insurance... See More. The problem is if they don't have a driver's license, then they can't have car insurance, so they could still be driving without insurance. The majority of these people simply want to make a living and harm no one at all. I always try to put myself in the shoes of other people...and if you were living in squalor in Mexico and couldn't provide for your family, my guess is you would also try to get into this country to make a living for your family, too. There's always two sides to a story. Anyone that has a heart would see things a little differently if they just tried to do that.

Me: California doesn't have a sales tax on groceries. It also has the highest concentration of illegal aliens, Steve. A hell of a lot of the money they do make goes straight back to their home countries. Like it or not, they aren't contributing to this society, in most cases have no wish to be members of it, and in many cases are just as rabidly racist as the worst sheet wearing Alabama cracker.

First: Yes, California has one of the highest concentrations of illegal aliens. But I can bet they don't just buy groceries at WalMart, Kmart, Costco or wherever else they shop which is basically the same places I shop because I see them there all of the time. I'm not sure how you can say they aren't contributing to society. How do they make the money... See More? Steal it? Of course not. The vast majority work their butts off for it. I see it on a daily basis every morning downtown where they congregate while waiting for someone to come pick them up to paint, landscape, etc. There's no reason to stereotype them, either. We know so many illegal immigrants here and they couldn't be more opposite of what you just described.

Me: Not every brown face you see is an illegal. And no, illegals don't contribute to society. They can't. The small amount of money that they put back into the US economy is far outweighed by the amount they take out. They create an economic situation (that could be solved by eliminating minimum wage) in which American workers can't compete. Those... See More who are citizens and can't compete go on the public dole. That costs those who do pay taxes more. If they weren't here illegally that wouldn't be an issue because they'd be making at least minimum wage just like everyone else. You can't deposit a dollar, write a check for $20, and then claim you contributed.

They work hard? They can work just as hard in their own countries and build them into something to be proud then. No reason to come here.

Never met any racists Latinos, Chinese, or Koreans? You've not spent enough times in the right parts of LA.

First: Agreed. I'm married to someone that is not white. I just don't see anything you're saying as being backed up by any facts. Do you actually think there are Americans that are willing to do the kinds of jobs that these illegals do? Maybe in today's in economy, but not when the economy is going strong. It's just sad that you think that they can ... See Morework just as hard in their countries. I'm just wondering if you've ever been to Mexico, Dominican Republic, Haiti like I have and seen the lack of opportunities they have in their own countries. There are racists everywhere. That doesn't mean that I have to be one. By the way...ever thought of all of the Indians that we massacred? Talk about illiegal immigration...

We're obviously never going to agree on this issue and I would guess most issues, so I'll respectfully just agree to disagree.

Me: Been to Mexico. There are plenty of opportunities. Do you have any idea how many natural resources that country has?

People will do the work, if the pay is reasonable. People who live here won't do the work that many illegals do because they're not living as subsistence levels in order to provide for a family in country where the dollar is a more valuable currency.

Most of your claims have been racists so far, albeit towards white people. But hey, that's okay, right? What's sad is that you can't see how self hating your are. You want to talk about American Indian massacres, but I doubt you want to talk about the ones they committed against European settlers. Illegal immigration? Hardly, considering American Indians did not believe in owning land and had no established nations. You want me to feel sorry for a bunch of savages who hadn't even managed to invent the wheel and spent most of their time killing and raping each other. Please.

Respectfully disagree? You have to respect someone before you can do that and you've done nothing to earn that from me. You've not made one clear rebut any of the claims I've made, and from the beginning you've done nothing but throw up straw men that are so flimsy they aren't even worth the effort of knocking down. You talk about facts, but haven't given the first one yourself. Please. Why don't you go take a class in argumentation then come play again?

Fun, yes. Waste of time? Also yes.

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